Well, if you are a Darwinist or the “Evolutionary Theodicy” sort you do that which your theory is practically based upon; you disregard the evidence and concoct yet another tall tale to fill the gaps in your previous tall tale. And you always remember that when evidence contradicts theory you do not augment the theory in order to accommodate the evidence rather, you manipulate the evidence so that it will fit the theory.

The story of the coelacanth is fascinating for various reasons, for our purposes the fascination is in noting how the evidence implies one story and the Darwinist infers quite another.
Fossils of the fish coelacanth are said to date as far back as 400,000,000 years ago and they were thought to have gone extinct circa 60,000,000 years ago. This opened the door for the telling of tall tales about how the coelacanth decided to get out of the water and trot about on land. Oh, the stories that were told; we can tell from the fins that…and became legs because…anatomy this, evolution that, and bada bing—human being.
What a time they had; chin stockingly pontificating as they interpreted evidence based on bias schools of thought and adherence to theory (which I evidenced in the essay Scientific Cenobites). But then the show was over and reality swam past them as in 1938 AD South African fishermen made Marjorie Courtenay Latimer, the curator of a museum in East London (northeast of Cape Town, South Africa), aware of the living fish—the Gombessa, as they knew it.

But the party was not over. While many biologists express consternation at the upsetting of their theories, a good Darwinist never lets those troubling little facts get in the way of a good theory. For example, recall that the fact that human embryos have gill slits proved that ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. Yet, when it was proved that human embryos do not have gill slits this still proved that ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny because human embryos used to have gill slits and have now evolved (as recently as a couple of year ago an atheist Darwinist who had actually studied anatomy told me that human embryos have gill slits—relying on a century and half old hoax anyone?).
Thus, when the living fish toppled the dead theory the fish was prepared with a twist of lemon and the theory was propped back up in the form of a red herring. What comes forth from this strange sort of weird science is that there are two stories of the coelacanth: the actual story told by the evidence itself and the story told regardless of evidence which is meant to function as smoke and mirrors which call attention away from the story told by the evidence—smoked coelacanth, yummy.
The evidence presents a fish which has not changed in 60,000,000 years (with the possible exception of size, etc.). The theory remains all but unchanged; this fish decided to go on walkabout. But how is the gap filled between the evidence of an unchanged and the human who examines the fish from which it supposedly evolved? By appealing to the mythical environmental pressures which caused part of the fish population to remain unchanged for 60,000,000 years and part to change into human beings who eat them (actually, I understand that they are too oily to be good eat′ns).

I encountered an interesting and vacuous statement which sought to take creationists to task at dinofish.com:
Seemingly immune to the pressures of natural selection, the coelacanth changed little (except in size and possibly in habitat) over the eons. Creationists have used this as evidence against the theory of Evolution, but most observers see the coelacanth as a startling, and loveable (Old Four Legs) messenger from the past.No joke, this was the entirety of their refutation. Note the way that they fill the gap in that it just so happens that the coelacanth was “Seemingly immune to the pressures of natural selection.” What do we learn about natural selection? It is the driving force behind evolution except when it is not because some creatures are immune.
Dinofish.com also stated,
Two back, or dorsal, fins and one protruding beneath the nape of the tail are complimented by paired lobed pectoral and pelvic fins. These contain in their trunks bones mimicking those of Eusthenopteron which later developed into arms and legs. While coelacanths have not been observed to "walk" on the bottom, their pectoral and pelvic fins can be seen as "pre-adaptations" to land locomotion. Used under water their action maintains stability and balance. But in their cousin Eusthenopteron, the same action became four-legged land walking.
While the living coelacanths retain many ancient features they have also, contrary to their public image, done some evolving along the way. Live bearing, for example, would seem to be a modern feature.
So, they “changed little…over the eons” and have also “done some evolving along the way.” Incidentally, they are mistaken about “Live bearing” being “a modern feature” as it is claimed that in fish this process dates from the Carboniferous period of 360,000,000-290,000,000 years ago.
You will note that part of the evidence for the coelacanth becoming a land dweller is that its cousin became a land dweller; even though eusthenopteron is a fish of the open sea.
Hans Fricke, an ethologist with the Max-Planck Institute, wrote of the coelacanth’s advanced electric field detection capabilities as well as its lack of walking un-abilities:
they may also be able to locate prey by detecting changes in the electric field around them…it is intriguing that this fish may hone in on prey by detecting changes in the weak electric field the prey produces…
Our films settled another question that has intrigued scientists: whether the coelacanth can walk on its lobed fins. Though we observed several individuals resting with their fins braced against the sea bottom, we never saw any of them walk, and it appears the fish is unable to do so…
I confess I'm sorry we never saw a coelacanth walk on its fins. Professor Smith himself nicknamed the coelacanth Old Fourlegs in the belief that the creature actually did walk upon the seafloor like a seal on its flippers. Alas, that does not seem to be the case.[1]
When you see early taxidermic reconstructions of the coelacanth you can tell just how desperate the scientists were to, quite literally, bend the evidence in the favor of their theory as the coelacanth’s legs were bent downwards in order to make it seem as if the poor little guy was read to walk. This is quite evidence from the “Old Four Legs” book cover as well:

Indeed, there is quite a difference between manipulating a dead fish or skeleton to do as you please like so many marionettes on the one hand and observing the living fish in its environment doing as it will. Fricke notes,
For all their excellent work in the past, the scientists who preceded us in the study of coelacanths were severely hampered by the lack of a submersible. They could only examine dead or dying specimens brought up by Comoran fishermen.
Alas, as noted by Peter L. Forey
Fifty years ago this week [the week of Dec. 1988], Latimeria chalumnae was discovered, the only living representative of the otherwise extinct coelacanth fishes. Half a century of research shows it is not the hoped for missing link between fish and land vertebrates.[2]
Some years ago PBS aired a “documentary” retelling the story of the Coelacanth. You could literally take the documentary and re-edit it into two documentaries: one about the evidence for the unchanged fish which obviously did not turn into land walkers, much less human beings and the other which would be the evolutionary mythology about how, despite the evidence, it did so.
Lastly, I wanted to note that I learned that Jacques Millot had researched the coelacanth and checked the search engine at Scientific American for his article of 1955 AD simply titled, “The Coelacanth.” Having no hits searching various ways I finally typed “Jacques Millot” and got this result:
Your search for ""Jacques Millot"" resulted in 0 documents.
Did you mean "hotcakes Mildest"?
No, I did not—no, I did not.
[1] Hans Fricke, Coelacanths, The Fish That Time Forgot – first published in National Geographic, June 1988
[2] Peter L. Forey, “Golden jubilee for the coelacanth Latimeria chalumnae,” Nature, 336, 727-732 (29 December 1988)
This essay is copyrighted by Mariano of the “Atheism is Dead” blog at http://atheismisdead.blogspot.com.
It may be republished in part or in its entirety on websites, blogs, or any print media for whatever purpose—in agreement or in order to criticize it—only as long as the following conditions are met:
1) Give credit to “Mariano of the ‘Atheism is Dead’ blog at http://atheismisdead.blogspot.com”
2) Inform me as to which essay is being reproduced and where it is being reproduced via the comments section at this link





Haha. Darwinism fail.
ReplyDeleteMariano,
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if you realize this, but this whole story does absolutely nothing to debunk evolution--not even a chink in the armor. So scientists 100 years ago were wrong. Okay, fine. Congratulations, Captain Obvious. As if that's never happened before.
I am exceedingly curious as to how you reckon with the overwhelming evidence in favor evolution. Do you just ignore it, true "skeptic" that you are? Or are you simply too fascinated with the personal failings of Darwinist and evolutionist scientists to notice?
First, you misunderstand evolution. Even though we evolved from bacteria, there are still bacteria around. Alligators have remained relatively unchanged for millions of years. When a gene pool separates and one group evolves in response to new environmental pressures, that doesn't mean that the old niche necessarily disappears.
ReplyDeleteSecond, if you think that our evidence for fish to tetrapod evolution is based on a single debunked fossil, allow me to get you caught up to our present scientific understanding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils#Fish_to_Tetrapods
Write more essays about the trinity or something. Your science essays make baby Jesus cry.
Not this nonsense again!
ReplyDelete"Coelacanth" is a generic descriptor applied at the Order or Family taxonomic level. To say that Latimeria (Genus, not even species) hasn't changed in umpteen million years is like pointing to African and Indian elephants and concluding mastodons haven't evolved either.
And, not that you care, evolution simply says that species can and sometimes do change visibly over time. It does not say that they must. This is a problem with your ignorance about the theory of evolution, not a problem for the theory.
Your claims are just plain ridiculous and won't work on anyone unless they're stupid, blind or ignorant.
Mmm. I love all this ad hoc goodness.
ReplyDeleteJust because evolution can't be proven and many of it's predictions have been shown to be false, doesn't mean that evolution isn't true!
ReplyDeleteEvolution is infallible, and deniers simply lack faith.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteI'm curious, how do you reckon with the overwhelming evidence in favor of evolution?
There is nothing ad hoc about it. Our ancestors were bacteria, fish, reptiles, then mammals and yet all of these things still exist today. If you think that this is incompatible with evolution, then you don't understand evolution. Reptiles didn't have to all die out so that their cousins, the early mammals, could live on. Coelacanths didn't all have to die out for their cousins to become tetrapods. If you claim that the theory of evolution would require their niche to disappear and for them to die out, please explain how you came to this conclusion.
ReplyDeleteMariano's science essays share a common theme. Point out instances when certain evidence compatible with evolution was meant to make a strong claim that is later shown to be invalid. This was the theme of Mariano's essay on Ardi. The logical leap then is to say that somehow by showing that the strong claim is unsupported, the theory of evolution is destroyed.
To help you understand why this is a fallacy, allow me to give you a completely parallel analogy. Theory: Jesus was a real historical figure. Overzealous evidence: Shroud of Turin. Outcome: Evidence debunked. Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus was not a real historical figure.
Yeah, that's pretty stupid logic. Stop using it.
Hahah this is what I caught bossmanham out on AJ's blog wasn't it? The article is built on the ignorance the Coelacanth is not a species a fish. It's an Order of Fish. And the 2 Species of this Order of Fish are different to what's found in the fossil record.
ReplyDeleteFor example the Order Canivora is the link between Cats & Dogs. So that's the sort of taxonomic size we're talking about.
So basically this is an example of something that has changed over Family, Class, Genus & Species. So a fine example of "Macro"-Evolution.
Hmm... It looks like Anonymous has just disappeared without answering my question. Very mysterious, indeed.
ReplyDeleteHey... Mariano? Your 'science' sucks as much as your blog.
ReplyDeleteSecularist...
ReplyDelete"Hmm... It looks like Anonymous has just disappeared without answering my question. Very mysterious, indeed."
Hmm....it looks like you don't actually have a life outside of the blogosphere.
What about my statement was untrue? I don't think any reputable scientist would say that science provides "proofs" of anything. If you think it does then you simply know nothing of science.
Poor Anonymous!
ReplyDeleteNobody is saying your statement is untrue! Why so paranoid? I would never argue with anyone who says "Evolution is infallible" except to say that you're a bit too zealous and overstate the case a little bit.
MaskedMarauder...
ReplyDelete"Nobody is saying your statement is untrue!"
I know my statement is true, Secularist seems to disagree.
Anonymous: perhaps the confusion stems from your posting anonymously. There's an atavistic poster here abouts who also posts anonymously and would never agree with you that evolution is infallible.
ReplyDeleteI know I am certainly missing something, I don't know anyone who thinks any scientific theory is infallible. More simply 'the best explanation for the evidence we have'.
ReplyDeleteWell, Anonymous claims to think evolution is infallible. But you're right and hence my criticism for the overzealous endorsement of the theory.
ReplyDeleteProbably immature and clearly inclined to express him, her or it's self in an over-the-top hebephrenic style, Anonymous' sentiment is nearly acceptable when read in a vernacular sense.
Anonymous:
ReplyDelete"Hmm....it looks like you don't actually have a life outside of the blogosphere."
Holy ad hominem, batman!
You said:
"What about my statement was untrue? I don't think any reputable scientist would say that science provides 'proofs' of anything. If you think it does then you simply know nothing of science."
Unsurprisingly you have (1) not answered my very simple question, (2) changed the subject, (3) attacked me personally...AGAIN
So I'll ask again:
I'm curious, how do you reckon with the overwhelming evidence in favor of evolution?
Well, it's now been over a week since my comment above. Therefore I feel justified in saying that Anonymous has disappeared without answering my very simple question. But then again, maybe it's just because I have no life outside the blogosphere.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous remains mysteriously anonymous here. Easy come, easy go.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYou are really as stupid as Mariano. He is a complete fool when it comes to science. I will answer your question - you are an asshole! Get a life outside this blog.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYou truly are an idiot just like is stated above by secularist10
Secularist...
ReplyDelete"You are really as stupid as Mariano. He is a complete fool when it comes to science. I will answer your question - you are an asshole! Get a life outside this blog."
MaskedMarauder...
"You truly are an idiot just like is stated above by secularist10."
O.M.G!!!
The sad thing is that you guys are seriously enraged. I'm truly embarassed for you. Secularist, your repeated returning to this thread in an attempt to pick an internet fight is pathetic and indicative of a lack of a life outside of the blogosphere. Unfortunately, that's where the evidence leads.
MaskedMarauder, right back at you.
It's evident that I've somehow seriously challenged the sacredness of both of your belief systems. How else to explain the outrage?
As for this thread, it's unlikely I'll participate further, but I might. So, Secularist, please keep returning to show us what an exciting life you lead away from this blog, just in case.
Pay attention, Anon.
ReplyDeleteThose are spoofs. The faux MM has no "avatar," and the link goes to a different destination. The same is so for the fake secularist10. The spoofer is using a leading blank space on the name so its different, but doesn't look different...
I expect your lack of attention to detail and indifference to analysis explains a lot about how you came to be a christian. Intellectual sloth is a big part of credulity.
I am the real secularist10 (I'm Spartacus!...I'm Spartacus!... ;)
ReplyDeleteThanks, MM.
And what about answering the question, Anonymous? I notice you accuse me of coming back to this thread, and yet... you keep coming back to this thread. Still without answering my question, I might add.
MaskedMarauder....
ReplyDeleteAre you serious?
I wish I could bring myself to be more impressed with your analytical prowess, but I find myself even more awed by your pompous, self-importance.
People change avatars all the time, and who follows the links from a commenter's profile name every time that person posts?
It's clear that you hold your internet personna to be more relevant to other posters lives than it actually is. You should get out more.
Anon: exactly my point, you're more interested in slinging insults than you are in who you sling them at or why. Its all theatre for you. Not everyone is so shallow.
ReplyDeleteThe correction was for the benefit of anyone who happens to read this. It was not intended for you. I'm not foolish enough to suppose that somebody without a personality actually cares about anyone who does.
MaskedMarauder....
ReplyDeleteWho's slinging insults? You are sounding more foolish with each post. Your previous post was addressed... "Pay attention Anon", and, after your correction, you continued to impress us with your reasoning skills in suggesting an explanation for how I came to be a Christian.
Obviously, your previous post was addressing me in particular. Either you are very dishonest or you have extremely poor communication skills and are socially retarded.
Either way, thanks for the correction, I'll be watching for that in the future.
Wow. Thanks for making my day, this was a great laugh.
ReplyDelete"you find that the fish is still alive, well and unchanged?"
ReplyDeleteHahaha. Unchanged? Modern coelacanth species make up their own genus - unknown from the fossil record. I didn't need to read anymore. What a load of old shit.
Wow, you sound like the simplest person on earth.
ReplyDeleteAn entire species doesn't nessarly evolve, some of them mutate. Those that mutate and survive, mostly due to their mutation, live to reproduce those "new" genes into the gene pool. Not every fish mutates at the same rate.
ReplyDeleteHave you seen all the different potatoes there are in the world. Isn't it weird that they are all so different yet simply, just a potato?
Atheism is alive and well. In fact, I believe there are more Atheists them Theists. Prove I'm wrong, oh you can't because "I believe" this.