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5/27/09

Atheist Re-Education Camp for Children

If raising one’s child according to one’s faith is “child abuse” (as per very many militant activist atheists) what is raising one’s child according to anti-theism? “Re-education” seemed appropriate (de-education came is as a close second).

The UK Independent has reported on atheist re-educations camps for the children of parents who want their children to think exactly like they do.[1]

Atheists have become the latest group to cash in on Britain's booming summer camp industry by creating the country's first-ever retreat for irreligious children.

The camp, “Camp Quest,” was founded in 1996 AD and is a “godless alternative” the slogan of which is “Beyond Belief.”
The camp is for,

atheists, agnostics, humanists, freethinkers and all those who embrace a naturalistic rather than supernatural world view.

Anti-supernatural and “Beyond Belief.” one can only imagine what those poor little children are taught. Actually, they are surely taught the same thing in public school classrooms where atheism is smuggle through the backdoor or, actually, directly in through the front. “That’s right kids, all that stuff about the supernatural is poppycock! Everyone knows that matter is the eternal uncaused first cause and that the universe and absolutely everything in it, including you, is a result of serendipitous coincidinc!”

Maybe they can be told what Prof. Richard Dawkins stated during his 1991 AD “Christmas Lectures for Young People”:

We are machines built by DNA whose purpose is to make more copies of the same DNA…It is every living object's sole reason for living’…fulfilling a purpose of propagating DNA…There is no purpose other than that.[2]

Next we find that the adults who run the camp, perhaps commensurate to their level of emotional maturity and intellectual prowess, engage in debate with little children as the camp revolves around “discussions about religion and non-belief” and features:

The centrepiece [sic; UK sp] of the camp is an ongoing discussion where participants are encouraged to try to disprove the existence of unicorns, which serve as a metaphor for God.
Campers are told that two unicorns live in the area and cannot be seen, heard or touched. The adult councillors pretend to believe in the unicorns on the basis that an ancient book handed down through the generations says they exist.
The children are encouraged to try to prove that the unicorns do not exist. If anyone is successful they will be awarded a £10 note which has a picture of Charles Darwin on it and is signed by leading atheist academic Richard Dawkins.

I thought that Charles Darwin was not used to promote atheism?!? See, I knew that promoter of youth rebellion against God promoter Prof. Richard Dawkins was involved somehow. But a £10 note reward? Please, the camp costs £275 to attend, what kind of deal is that?!?
Apparently, the adult indoctrinators do not know the difference between a necessary being and a mockery. Scientific observation and philosophic consideration of the universe infers a creator and can even alert us to certain characteristics while the mockery is a straw-horse readymade to be toppled (Atheism is Dead will feature a discussion of natural theology the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Invisible Pink Unicorns in the relatively near future).

Let us review: we have a “godless alternative” that is “Beyond [theistic] Belief” for “atheists, agnostics, humanists, freethinkers and all those who embrace a naturalistic rather than supernatural world view” where little children are made to engage in sham debate adults and rewarded with a glorification of Charles Darwin and Richard Dawkins.

Get the picture?

Well, Camp Quest does not:

The organisers remain adamant, however, that the camp will not have a proselytising “atheist agenda”.
“We don't teach children not to believe in God, we simply tell them it's OK not to believe in God,” said Edwin Kagin…founder of Camp Quest…

“The idea of the unicorn debate is not to prove God doesn't exist, it is to illustrate that having such debates with religious people is futile because in the end faith trumps everything,” said Miss Stein [Samantha Stein, organiser of the British version of Camp Quest].

Also, in keeping with the general intellectual prowess demonstrated by the Camp Quest crew we find some comments about attempting to talk children into believing, as stated by Samantha Stein,

that it is OK to be an atheist and that a lack of religion does not mean a lack of morals or ethics.

One parent, Crispian Jago, agrees with this goal,

“We're a non-religious family but not anti-religion,” he said. “A lot of my religious friends insist their morality stems from a divine source rather than a natural one but I want my children to know they can have morals and ethics without needing to resort to a faith.”

Note that the premise of atheist morals and ethics is anti-theistic. Moreover, they appear to mistakenly correlate morals and ethics. While this is very common and ethics is sometimes defined as a body of morals; morals denotes mores and while ethics denotes the actual ethos. One is description of what is and the other prescription of what ought to be.

In reality this is another of the very many examples that Atheism is Dead has provided to the disparity between the atheist public relations claims and their actual modus operandi:

Atheism and the Continuing Public Image Shim Sham Shimmy: the Atheist Community of Topeka Give it a Shot

Atheist Nip and Tuck: the Metroplex Atheists Try on the Friendly Atheist Mask

Atheism - the Living Dead (on USA Today blog columnist Nica Lalli)

Atheism : Another Attempt at a, Positive, Face Lift (on the Seattle Atheists)

Is the “Atheist Alliance International” Atheism’s Happy Face?

The Godless Unholiday Tree (a follow up on Atheist Alliance International)

Why do professional atheist indoctrinators and parents simply admit that they too want their children to believe just as they do?

Since I have already written about this in another blog I will move that post over here in a few days.

[1] Jerome Taylor, “Summertime camps boom: The 'Godless alternative' for non-believers,” Independent, 29 April 2009
[2] Nick Pollard talks to Dr. Richard Dawkins (interviewed February 28th, 1995 published in Third Way in the April 1995 edition [vol 18 no. 3])

24 comments:

  1. Some Atheists will complain they grew up being afraid of going to Hell. OTOH I knew of a young woman raised an Atheist who grew up being afraid of death & oblivion. Her parents told he when you die you are simply gone. She imagined since she was "just a brain" (& of course even after death some electrical activity lingers)she might be semi-concious lying in her grave as she rotted.

    Yikes!!!!

    At least the Theist kid can be told to trust in God's Grace & He/She would never know Hell. What does the Atheist kid have to look forward too? Literally Nothing.

    Child abuse indeed.

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  2. How ironic that they complain about indoctrination and not letting kids decide, yet here they are doing the same thing. Wow. Hypocrisy at its finest here.

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  3. Apparently, the adult indoctrinators do not know the difference between a necessary being and a mockery.  
    Apparently neither do you. There is no such thing as a "necessary being."

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  4. Apparently neither do you. There is no such thing as a "necessary being.
    I think the babies that go into depression because their mothers died (they don't even EAT) would argue that there is such thing as a "necessary being." Atheist logic strikes again.

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  5. TD: physiologically necessary in your particular case, yes, I agree. But I don't think that was what Mariano was talking about in the quoted segment.

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  6. MM: A necessary being, as the article implies, is a being such that the existence of the universe depends on. It is indisputably foolish to believe that something came from nothing.

    You could argue the eternal universe, but there is little evidence of that - in fact, if the universe was eternal, it would be in a state of heat equilibrium (making life impossible). Therefore, it is necessary to define the universe as being a finite universe.

    A finite universe has a beginning - but who, or what, made it? That Maker is the necessary being.

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  7. I would say its indisputably foolish to believe in anything for which there is no evidence. Such as a necessary being, for instance.

    That something must come from something else is a habit of thought from mundane experience, or an inference, which is usually disallowed as logically impure and unreliable in these sorts of conversations. Especially so when applied to situations far from the experiential domain from which it was derived.

    It seems to me you just make up rules when and as you need them to defend the conclusion you want to reach.

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  8. TD: physiologically necessary in your particular case, yes, I agree. But I don't think that was what Mariano was talking about in the quoted segment.
    well perhaps you should be a bit more precise with what you say?

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  9. I would say its indisputably foolish to believe in anything for which there is no evidence. Such as a necessary being, for instance.
    There is plenty of evidence, there is historical evidence, testimonial evidence, and eye witness evidence.

    Do you believe that something comes from nothing? if you do then it would be quite ironic that you say it is indisputably foolish to believe in anything for which there is no evidence, but there is no evidence, NOT A SHRED OF IT, that states 'something comes from nothing.' So you're either being a hypocrite, stating it is wrong to believe in God(which you claim there is no evidence)but it is ok for you to believe that something came from nothing despite there not being any evidence, OR your entire comment here:
    That something must come from something else is a habit of thought from mundane experience, or an inference, which is usually disallowed as logically impure and unreliable in these sorts of conversations. Especially so when applied to situations far from the experiential domain from which it was derived.

    It seems to me you just make up rules when and as you need them to defend the conclusion you want to reach.
    means nothing at all! since you know there is no evidence that suggests something can come from nothing, and you do not believe something comes from nothing, thus your entire comment is completely irrelevant and means nothing whatsoever.

    Atheist logic strikes again.

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  10. A kids camp should be for fun, maybe a little ethics and not to be indoctrinated with any set of ideals Atheist or Religious

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  11. My parents did not raise me either a theist or non-theist, yet at age six I distinctly remember my commitment to theism as I studied a multicolored insect. Coupled with the love I felt for my parents and friends, Theism was axiomatic. And to this day (46 years later) I see no good reason not to be theistic; no reason to abandon my initial impression of creation and the sense of obligation I felt then, and yet feel toward its Creator.

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  12. The question is not whether I believe something comes from nothing, its whether something must come from something else. If that is true then the "necessary being" isn't necessary after all since something else must have made "The Maker". And so on.

    Put another way, if "it is indisputably foolish to believe that something came from nothing", then it must be indisputably foolish to believe that the "necessary being" didn't come from something else. That's all I'm saying.

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  13. I see this site is still hard at work spreading their propaganda.

    I'm so looking forward to that post about Hitler and the Bible too! More propaganda to laugh at!

    No one is being indoctrinated you morons! It's just a camp where other kids who disbelieve can have fun- just without the pedophile priests trying to stick their hands down the kid's pants!

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  14. Kids dont believe or disbelieve unless indoctrinated by elders they simply observe and try to have fun. We dont seem to have the problem of having to set up our own theme camps in Australia in fear of religion. They are simply camps and this must be yet another American thing.
    If you suffer Priest paranoia choose another from the thousands available.

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  15. Theological Discourse:

    Currently I cannot explain why the universe exists rather than not existing, nor can I explain why the universe is as it is, rather than some other way.

    It seems that you think you have a satisfying answer with your God hypothesis.

    However, can you explain why God exists rather than not-existing, or why God is the way she is rather than some other way?

    Asserting that God exists as she does "necessarily" may seem to you clever and satisfying, but not to me.

    Just as you would not find my assertion that the Universe exists as it does "necessarily" to be a clever or satisfying explanation. But I would never make such an assertion.

    I am comfortable with uncertainty. I do not pretend to know things I don't.

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  16. I can only speak from a Deistic viewpoint but
    Its an opinion and observation just like yours.
    Our minds are obviously limited but it is innate that most suspect a mysterious order and purpose to universe, without having being indoctrinated by an organised religion.

    Im sorry if the perception of others troubles you

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  17. "but it is innate that most suspect a mysterious order and purpose to universe, without having being indoctrinated by an organized religion."

    I agree. Multiple psychological studies of human children show that they have an innate intuitive tendency for superstitious beliefs.

    Similar studies demonstrate superstitious behavior in pigeons.

    So you share an intuitive superstition with pigeons and human toddlers. Congratulations. You should realize that intuitions come from our limbic system, a primitive portion of the brain that originated in reptiles.

    You should also realize something else. If four hundred years of science has taught us anything, it has taught us that our intuitions are almost always dead wrong.

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  18. Oh an expert on conciousness and mind. I didnt realise one existed YET.

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  19. Oh and please tell me what beliefs pigeons may share

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  20. Following the publication of this article in the Independent, I wrote a short post on my blog to further explain my reasons for sending my children to Camp Quest, that are not covered in the article.

    Link below

    http://crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2009/04/thanks-for-spelling-my-name-correctly.html

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  21. At one point I would have offered that the owner of this blog and those posting comments are the ones requiring re-education -- since they evidently cannot read for comprehension yet.

    It is also evident that the little you learned about Camp Quest (damned little, despite the amount of information available) has been twisted in your infant mind and spewed back onto your pages in a most unrecognizable form.

    The only data that connected in what passes for your mind, is that "atheist" was used in the same article as "Camp Quest" therefore leading you to the false conclusion that Camp Quest turns children into atheists.

    This is not the case. Children who leave Camp Quest as atheists were atheists when they arrived. Agnostics leave as agnostics, Catholics and Protestants and Jews leave as Catholics, Protestants and Jews.

    Camp Quest encourages children to ask questions their teachers would never allow. Camp Quest allows children a place where is is okay to not believe in God or gods or other supernatural things.

    You should quit lying about things youknow nothing about.

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  22. In other words, it's a camp where it's ok to be an angsty post-Gen X goth kid. And you win Monopoly money with a picture of Darwin & Dawkins signing the Humanist Manifesto on the back (because of course, nothing is being promoted here belief-wise - it's purely accidental that these two paragons of objectivity and antitheism are associated with the camp).

    Given the overly-cheery comment from one of the Harris/Klebold Alumni above, I have high hopes that these camps will be churning out (churning out, like sausage) some really outstanding examples of societal politeness and nihilistic good will - after all, those Nietzschean Youths are just itching to liberate the masses from religion! Huzzah....

    And who knows!, Al-Qaeda may have some real competition for recruitment on its hands if ever these Brights decide to move on from armchair philosophizing to Finnish schoolyard weapons training.

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  23. Looks like kh123 has a weirdly active imagination, full of paranoid delusions.

    Ironic that he should mention politeness and good will in a blog that attacks and disseminates false information about a necessary child-care organization.

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  24. Fundamental Christians are the ones that decided Darwin was an enemy and are fighting the theory of evolution even though they have no other worthwhile theory to compete with it since ID is not a biological theory or even scientific (it is a philosophy if anything). Also the theory of evolution doesn't disprove or even try to disprove anything in the Bible (unless you read the Bible literally which is a silly thing to do), and most Creationists/ID supporters don't even seem to understand what the scientific definition of a theory involves. Evolution is an example of critical thinking that has been made a symbol of atheism by the religious right, hence its use in the camp.

    Why do you feel so threatened by this camp that you had to post this? You obviously would be happy if it was shut down, yet no-one has said that the Christian camps should close. Hypocritical much? Plus a lot of these kids are under attack at school and other places by Christians simply because they think rationally. Why shouldn't they have somewhere they can go and be themselves?

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